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Tuesday, August 09, 2005
Drudge-alanche
As Ezra notes below, the poll we released last week showing 36% support for Western separation has been noticed by the biggest news portal in the U.S., the Drudge Report.
You can be sure that Americans will find it to be of great interest. After all, Canada's government has been behaving so boorishly toward its southern neighbour in the last few years that you can bet Americans might find it a bit rich that Ottawa, always so full of advice for Washington, can't even keep its own country from falling apart.
And don't you think that many Americans realize the kind of change that an independent Canadian West could bring to the continent? All that oil, free market mentality, pro-American sympathies, etc. etc. Ottawa had better start taking Western alienation seriously—other countries will be only more than happy to help the West go it alone.
Posted by Kevin Libin on August 9, 2005 | Permalink
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» While I was Out... from small dead animals
The Western Standard poll that was a hot blog topic last week has caught the attention of the mainstream. ...and Drudge. ...and the Chinese - who, I'm thinking, would prefer to hash out future resource deals with Paul Martin and... [Read More]
Tracked on 2005-08-09 5:30:16 PM
» While I was Out... from small dead animals
The Western Standard poll that was a hot blog topic last week has caught the attention of the mainstream. ...and Drudge. ...and the Chinese - who, I'm thinking, would prefer to hash out future resource deals with Paul Martin and... [Read More]
Tracked on 2005-08-10 7:11:30 AM
Comments
You may have had smarter things to say about it than I did, but I did beat you to this story by one minute.
Now all we need to do is get Drudge to link to our cruise, http://www.westernstandardcruise.com
Posted by: Ezra Levant | 2005-08-09 3:37:43 PM
I just read the link on Drudge and I've very excited. This country that Quebec seperatists and Ontario liberals have mutated isn't what generations of my family have fought for. We need to separate The west from the rest. Get in going and people like me from around the country will come, build it up and defend it.
Screw liberals.
Posted by: Ryan in Montreal | 2005-08-09 3:54:31 PM
A VIP American has noticed: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Snow Lauds Canada's Oil Sands Projects
(CBS News - July 09, 2005 5:43 PM)
(AP) U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow toured one of Canada's oil sands projects and said he was impressed by the potential abundance of secure energy available from its northern neighbor. Meeting Friday with his Canadian counterpart, Minister of Finance ..
Posted by: maz2 | 2005-08-09 4:53:42 PM
Yeah maz2, an American VIP may have noticed but so too have the French and the Desmarais family.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050804/ROILSANDS04/TPBusiness/MoneyMarkets
CALGARY -- The great oil sands selloff is set to start as Total SA's massive deal to acquire Deer Creek Energy Ltd. sparks an international acquisition frenzy, observers say.
The $1.35-billion acquisition is just the tip of Total's latest foray into the oil sands, with a senior company executive saying yesterday that the French firm is prepared to spend up to $15-billion in Alberta in the coming decade -- including another major acquisition.
Posted by: TimR | 2005-08-09 5:32:29 PM
Hehe.
Congrats to Ezra and everyone here at Western Standard. Hopefully this will get you guys a lot more attention and (God willing) a lot more subscribers.
I live in Ontario now, but I used to live in the US, and the crazy thought of Alberta joining the US has me salviating.
It will not happen, but I do love to dream. Surely two peoples who love Stetsons should be together. :)
Posted by: TEM | 2005-08-09 6:01:26 PM
Please leave BC out of this. We're the most left-wing part of Canada (note that a majority of the electorate in May voted NDP or Green), and we want no part of Western separatism. We love Canada, but we want it to move further to the left.
Posted by: mijnheer | 2005-08-09 6:43:58 PM
Well, with support for Western Separation declining , you'd better act fast.
http://bouquetsofgray.blogspot.com/2005/08/fun-with-figures-western-separatism-is.html
Posted by: Noel M | 2005-08-09 7:01:15 PM
Somehow it flew under the radar of the Globe and Mail, the CBC and the Toronto Star. So, I guess the central Canada intelligentsia will never ever hear about it.
Posted by: Owen | 2005-08-09 7:08:03 PM
There's too much at stake to prevent Alberta's secession.
We cannot allow petty things like patriotism and emotion prevent Alberta from securing its economic future. Alberta's energy resources belong to Albertans, not to Canada. The federalists and Ontarians will abuse the revenues for their own privilege. Our kids and grandkids deserve a good future.
Canada is now our enemy, not a "kindly master", and we have to stop them. So take down the Canadian rag, aka Old Greedy, and think of your families, homes and lives.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-08-09 7:10:23 PM
Alberta out of Canada?
A Godsend!
Please go. We'll keep OUR oil fields and you take the rest.
Posted by: Justin | 2005-08-09 7:19:39 PM
TKLM is alive and well: The Kenora Liberation Movement. Then there was Beethoven's Fifth...
Posted by: maz2 | 2005-08-09 7:22:56 PM
As I've said before, I'm amazed that western Canadians put it with all the sh-- that Ottawa throws at them.
Posted by: Matthew Vadum | 2005-08-09 7:43:18 PM
I am Canadian. As I am sure most of you are. The fight for good governance in this country has been going on for far too long. All this talk about seperating the west is DEFINATELY not what our fathers and grandfathers died for in the previous wars. This is just the easy way out. What needs to be done in this country is for the provinces to elect parties and premiers that have the guts to stand up to Ottawa and DEMAND what is constitutionaly ours. In Alberta we have an excellent opportunity if the Liberals manage to fool the rest of the country once again.
Klein is leaving. We need someone who will not cowtow to Ottawa and get what is ours within this country. Just like Quebec.
Posted by: Altalad | 2005-08-09 7:49:21 PM
If Canada were going to create a mechanism that gave equal representation to every area of Canada (as the US Senate does here), and further, if Canada did away with language requirements in politics, then I would be the first to suggest that Alberta stick it out in Canada.
After all, then a real possibility would exist for being able to address the grievances that the West rightfully has. However, I never even see this idea advanced. I see the idea of building a firewall around Alberta. I see the idea of Western separation, either Alberta by itself or in company with some other provinces. I see the idea of Alberta joining the US. I see the idea of Alberta becoming an independent country about the size of Norway.
All of these possibilties seem better than the situation as it exists. For the life of me, I do not understand why Ottawa will not start aggressively moving to give all provinces equal representation and stop excluding people from the political process by language requirements.
Just for the record, let me remind you that if Alberta decided to become a US territory or a US state, it's not like anyone would go anywhere. Albertans would still live in the exact same place. Everybody would still be in the same house they were before statehood. In some respect, there would be no change. People would run down the Maple Leaf, and run up the Start and Stripes at the post office. Everyone would look around and still see the same faces that they did before. People would still be going back and forth with their Canadian relatives pretty much as they do now. There wouldn't be any restrictions on travel or visitation, just as exists now.
You would simply wake up to lower taxes. No people demanding Kyoto requirements. No one interfering with your gun rights. No one looking down on you because they thought you were a redneck. And you would wake up in a country that appreciated your ethics, your values, your industry, your ambitions, and appreciated you for who and what you are.
I'm a Texan who grew up in Midland, Texas, went to a junior high school down the road from future President Bush's junior high school. (The future First Lady was in a third, and there was only one high school.) So I grew up in oil and cattle country, and as you can see from our highest office, rather than ridicule, sometimes they elect us president.
Posted by: Greg outside Dallas | 2005-08-09 8:10:31 PM
Is this when Westeners suddenly decide that secession is a right? Will Quebec be allowed to leave with its territory intact, or should the West secede but leave some tracts of land under the authority of the Canadian government?
What about neoconservatives? Will they now decide the Kurds can form their own country, that Lincoln shouldn't have fought a war to preserve the union; or should easterners join the armed forces in preperation for western seperation?
Posted by: TooManyQuestions | 2005-08-09 8:21:50 PM
A lot of conservatives (not all) follow Abe Lincoln in believing that secession is wrong and preservation of a centralized union is right.
They consider seperatists to be traitors and lethal force an acceptable response to regional bids for freedom.
It is thrilling to watch the hotbed of Canadian conservatism, the west, grapple with conflicting ideas. The knee-jerk neoconservative response to secession doesn't sound so attractive when one's own region is considering seperation.
At some point conservative intellectuals will have to provide the movement with a coherent and hopefully, less violent, philosophical solution to the issue of secession. Or they can help themselves to the Libertarian position.
Posted by: GoForItWest! | 2005-08-09 8:23:16 PM
"We love Canada, but we want it to move further to the left."
Looks like lots of open space near the Aleutians.
Posted by: Kate | 2005-08-09 8:26:17 PM
Ryan, I'm with you. I was born in Ont. and have lived here all my life, and I can see the decline speeding up. My wife wants to go but starting all over again at my age is holding me back. However, if Alberta separates, I think I would go. Building a new country... what an exciting thought!
Posted by: John | 2005-08-09 8:36:00 PM
What we need to do is separate, and form a new nation called "Western Canada". After a few years, we could begin negotiations with the the east to allow them to join us, at which point we would lose the word "Western", and become "Canada".
As a condition of letting Ontario in, we'll find fifty of the angriest, longest-suffering and most red-faced Presbyterian-types we can find to go through the books, once and for all; the Liberals can practice their Gallic shrugs outside, on the sidewalk.
Posted by: EBD | 2005-08-09 8:38:07 PM
Greg: your post made me weep with joy - you outlined the desires of Albertans of all stripes:
"You would simply wake up to lower taxes. No people demanding Kyoto requirements. No one interfering with your gun rights. No one looking down on you because they thought you were a redneck. And you would wake up in a country that appreciated your ethics, your values, your industry, your ambitions, and appreciated you for who and what you are."
That's damn near perfect.
But the Ontarians will never give up power. Life is too comfortable for them to consider making changes, or letting a bunch of "rednecks" (forgive the racial slur) have a bigger say in their country. I know from personal experience that to Ontarians, we're little better than the non-whites that they neglect and abuse.
It's either continue to tolerate their Ontario-biased policies, or secede and assume responsibility for our own affairs. Alberta has done well for itself by self-government - and that is a tradition we would like to maintain. It's a situation very similar to the 13 Colonies in the Revolution.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-08-09 9:01:05 PM
Ya damned right its about time for Alberta to leave this rotten damned country......The Canada that exists now is a shell of a once great country!!
We are sick of being ruled by the Liberals and the equally odious Red Tories.......
I AM an Albertan.....I sure the hell am no Canadian!!
Posted by: Albertanator | 2005-08-09 9:13:04 PM
Albertanator - Roger that...
Time to go... it's growing stronger every day. Could be a lot of chatter by the next prov. election. Short term will provide a lot of denials and minimalists.
Posted by: rob | 2005-08-09 9:24:14 PM
Hv 2 P 1st.
Posted by: EBD | 2005-08-09 10:01:38 PM
I can still remember growing up - going to school, having such pride in your country, and even singing "Oh Canada" every day before class (extreme - but bearable at the time) - now the Libs have taken over our once great country, and I no longer have any pride at all for Canada. In fact, I can no longer look at a Canadian flag. Anything I have with a Canadian flag on it has long since been discarded as I show of my disgust. We now live in a country where the polls are decided before some of us out West even get out to vote. We now live in a country where the ignorance of eastern voters allows a corrupt (sponsorship scandal), unaccountable (remember - the Libs did lose the first confidence vote - but wait, according to our buddy Paul, that was just a practice), cheating and bribing (Belinda...oh god Belinda) party to rule our country year after year after year - and on top of that, Alberta is throwing away their money to this federal government to help support the east, and it will only get worse. We can no longer be stepped on and have forced upon us high taxes, noone to back up our beef, and this ridiculous same-sex marriage which was rushed through parliament just so Paul could leave his legacy behind - well what a legacy it is. I don't care if we seperate, I don't care if we join the USA (i'm thinking of moving to Texas anyway) - but one thing is for sure, we can no longer stay in this country!
Posted by: Chris | 2005-08-10 12:19:14 AM
Oh yeah, and just one more thing -- I am sure glad that we have this gun control up and running, because imagine what the last few weeks in T.O. would be like without it! My goodness, I can just imagine.
Posted by: Chris | 2005-08-10 12:21:22 AM
Your so right Chris........its a horrible thing to have to hate your own country!! A Country that truly was once a great country....now a liberal multiculti degenerate nation.....gutless and undemocratic.....it really is sad...
And that is why it is time to foment for the West or at least Alberta to get the Hell out of this wretched and unfair confederation!!
All Eastern Conservatives should move out here and help us to get out also.....you would be more then welcome!!
Posted by: Albertanator | 2005-08-10 1:01:55 AM
Guys - Canada was NEVER "our" country.
Canada is Ontario and Quebec. No others need show concern. Even Quebec is not truly welcome.
They've shown little concern for our interest, and every inclination to interfere with our right to govern ourselves. If we don't leave, then we will forever be at their mercy. The time has come to grow up and assume responsibility for our interests.
To hell with you, Canada! Give me liberty or give me death!
Posted by: Scott | 2005-08-10 1:37:29 AM
Alberta out of Canada?
A Godsend!
Please go. We'll keep OUR oil fields and you take the rest.
Posted by: Justin | August 9, 2005 07:19 PM
Keep talking Justin. Your true colours are showing, RED. This is just what Albertans need to hear.
A typical easterner's point of view. The resources belong to the people of the province, not Canada. It's in the constitution. Reneging on the rules of this little 'confederation' is one of Alberta's main beefs. Keep it up. I love it when easterners talk dirty.
The time is long past, to end this shabby charade of a country. No sane introspection on the part of easterners. No reasoned assessment of the situation. No positive suggestions taking into account the claims of the aggrieved party. Just pie in the sky threats and the same warmed over putdowns.
Ontarian's have too much greed for power and contempt for Albertan's to even imagine, let alone do, what is needed to mollify us. The time is long past anyway.
How will Ottawa take Alberta's resources when we opt out, Justin? You and who's army?
Will the 'caring sharing' Canadians who wouldn't fight for the liberation of Iraq because 'IT'S ALL ABOUT OIL' come to Alberta and kill us for our oil?
Posted by: Speller | 2005-08-10 6:44:27 AM
And the new Governor General will be a French citizen.
http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=14672eb2-643e-4d07-91a4-816c5c98f1e8
According to Scott Reid of the PMO, inteviewed on CFRA, Ottawa, this morning, Ms Jean made a choice to apply for French citizenship--which she could do since her husband is French (and since 1981 Canadian). Reid's statement contradicts the Citizen story listed above which states she "...became a French citizen when she married Mr. Lafond, who holds dual citizenship, in a civil ceremony in 1990."
Reid said the reason Ms Jean took on French citizenship was to ensure that their adopted daughter, who is six, would also have French nationality. That decision clearly would have been taken many years after the 1990 marriage.
Mark
Ottawa
Posted by: Mark Collins | 2005-08-10 7:12:53 AM
And what would the reaction be if the GG-designate was a dual US citizen?
Mark
Ottawa
Posted by: Mark Collins | 2005-08-10 7:19:42 AM
Does the CBC have any commentators with dual US citizenship?
Mark, if the powers of the GG reside in the PM what difference does it make?
Posted by: Speller | 2005-08-10 7:51:46 AM
Speller: Barbara Frum had dual citizenship - she was born in Niagara Falls, NY.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-08-10 8:33:11 AM
Scott, Barbara Frum passed away in 1992. The Progressive Conservatives were in their second term.
I don't see what any of this talk about the GG has to do with the topic of this thread.
As an Alberta nationalist I don't care about federal patronage plums. The Libs can't look any worse to me. Good or bad, you can't polish a turd.
Posted by: Speller | 2005-08-10 8:59:22 AM
Separatists are traitors, be it in Quebec or Alberta. No better than the Liberal douchebags they claim to hate.
One commenter above was right:
"A lot of conservatives (not all) follow Abe Lincoln in believing that secession is wrong and preservation of a centralized union is right.
They consider seperatists to be traitors and lethal force an acceptable response to regional bids for freedom.
It is thrilling to watch the hotbed of Canadian conservatism, the west, grapple with conflicting ideas. The knee-jerk neoconservative response to secession doesn't sound so attractive when one's own region is considering seperation.
At some point conservative intellectuals will have to provide the movement with a coherent and hopefully, less violent, philosophical solution to the issue of secession. Or they can help themselves to the Libertarian position."
If Westerners are tired of being stereotyped as knuckle-dragging gap-toothed inbred yahoos, then why imitate the very states in the US associated with the Dixie Flag? You don't have to separate from Canada. ALberta can simply claim what is rightfully its own under the law such as a police force, tax dollars and even a money supply. It can be done. But that's the hard way. Separatism is a cop-out. Snap out of it.
Posted by: Aaron | 2005-08-10 10:19:03 AM
Woo hoo! The Western Standard's getting some play down here in the Southcentral Pennsylvania area. WGAL, our NBC affiliate in Lancaster, did a 15-20 second piece on the separatist poll near the end of their 12-1 p.m. newscast. Had a nice little graphic showing the key poll numbers and "Source: The Western Standard" in an easy-to-read font size and everything. They even teased it heading into the previous commercial break. Pretty cool, even if they misidentified the WS publishing schedule as "bi-monthly" instead of "bi-weekly."
-Dave O'Connell
York, PA
Posted by: Dave O'Connell | 2005-08-10 11:22:23 AM
Alberta is definitely getting a bad deal out of being a part of Canada, democracy isn't real for us. But, I kind of agree with Aaron above. Let's start with the firewalls, and get our own police force and pension plan. Ralph Klein is all talk and no action, we have the opportunity for great changes now that he is on his way out.
So, why don't all those that agree with Alberta separation give the firewalls a chance first? Don't be all talk and no action either. Email your MLA.
http://www.gov.ab.ca/home/index.cfm?Page=461
Maybe they will listen.
Posted by: ld | 2005-08-10 11:23:43 AM
Aaron Canada has never even fought a war for it's own independace. It is still as you well know a European colony. The Bureucracies of Europe dream of a New Roman Empire that they of course control. Frankly I have no desire to support a failed model such as the European Union. Policy in Canada is not made in Canada but Belgium. Paul Martin has wet dreams of one day being Ceasar. Fat chance. I would rather move to Alta. fight and die for an Alta. Independant or a US state than ever succumb to the New Roman Empire. And I almost 50. Oh to Live free.
Posted by: Jeff Cosford | 2005-08-10 11:52:58 AM
Greg outside of Dallas, you clever rascal you. Your smooth and convincing arguments almost had me fooled until I realized you are looking out for No.1 and not Albertans.
Alberta would be a rich asset to the U.S. and especially to Oil equipped Texas.
Now about the separation of Alberta or the Western block of four. Simply not practical.
I and others have listed many concrete reasons why setting up additional borders within Canada would only provide loss and disadvantage.
No point in going several posts back to copy those to paste here. Suffice for the moment to see a list of the big gains Albertans will enjoy if separated from Canada.
Albertan's enjoy paying no sales tax presently. That would change on separation and more taxes would also be required to pay for all the government buildings, institutions and staffs that Canada provides at the moment.
Albertans live the highest quality life of any group anywhere. If the equalization figures were unknown, would there be any incentive to separate then?
Naw, it's fun to get all excited about the possibility of the republic of Alberta, but it is more emotional than it is practical.
If Alberta had always been an independent country, there would be a vigorous movement to join Canada so as to raise the clout ratio from 1:100, up to the 10:100 level in matters of oil, water and cattle border conflicts with the USA. 73s TG
Posted by: TonyGuitar | 2005-08-10 12:31:10 PM
Jeff: Maybe I'm just still on the fence about Separation. But this French GG thing is downright stupid. PMPM has undermined Canada's sovereignty. One comment was right on the money - what if the GG had dual US-Canada citizenship?
Not only is Michaelle Jean our Head of State, but she's also the Commander-in-Chief of our military. Our military is headed up by a French National. How does that make you feel? Read for yourself on the GG's website. http://tinyurl.com/b82dg
Posted by: Aaron | 2005-08-10 12:36:58 PM
Please, and I mean, Please switch sides and become a US state.... Alberta could bully the US government into accepting it as long as they kept an incredible amount of state rights and sovereignty in return for statehood. That could then trickle down to other western states such as mine (WA), just like our founders had envisioned.
Our federal government has almost as much power as Ottawa and soon it will be no different with all laws coming out of Washington trumping state laws.
Help us Obi-wan Alberta, you're our only hope.
Posted by: Derek in Seattle | 2005-08-10 12:48:40 PM
The French government, over the last 40 years, has from time-to-time meddled in Canada/Quebec politics ("Vive le Quebec libre") and even, at times, tried to promote separatism.
Read what Parizeau himself has written and draw you own conclusion as the French President's attitude in 1995:
http://www.uni.ca/forasov.html
'THE KEY IS FRANCE: excerpts from For a Sovereign Quebec, by Jacques Parizeau
...
On the occasion of an official visit to France in January 1995, I set in motion for the first time my game with respect to the countries of the francophonie. The recognition of Quebec by some of these countries, at the same time as by France, would add additional pressure on the Americans. As Canada had, in francophone Africa in particular, used money to create some solid links, it was time to fight against any move to call in IOUs.
It was during that trip that Valéry Giscard d'Estaing raised an important issue that, until then, I had not fully understood. The drift of what he said was that it was necessary, in the hours or days that followed a Yes victory in the referendum, for Quebec to make a solemn gesture to proclaim its sovereignty. Without that, no foreign country could provide speedy recognition that is to say, within a week or 10 days.
If the proclamation of independence were suspended, say for six months or a year, to allow time for negotiations with Canada to succeed, or to draft jointly with Canada a partnership treaty, fine. However, France, or any other country, can only recognize a country. It does not recognize an intention.
...'
Imagine the position of a citizen of France, also Governor General of Canada, if France rapidly recognized a Quebec declaration of independence after a referendum? Surely that person would be a very severe conflict of interest.
And note this. In his Citizen story, "Governor general a French citizen" (August 10), Jack Aubry writes that Michaelle Jean "...became a French citizen when she married Mr. Lafond..." That is not true.
French citizenship can only be acquired after three years of marriage to a French citizen, and then the person must choose to make an application for French citizenship to French authorities. So the Governor General-designate made a conscious choice to acquire French citizenship in addition to Canadian.
(See the following from the French Consulate General, Vancouver: "Declaration de nationalite francaise par mariage".
http://www.consulfrance-vancouver.org/fae/services/francais/nationalite.htm)
Mark
Ottawa
Posted by: Mark Collins | 2005-08-10 1:02:04 PM
Aaron she is certainly not Commander in Chief as in the American sense that the President of the United States is Commander in Chief. She has no power other than symbolic. The symbolisism of her appointment is troubling. As I have said before Canada has tied it self to the the Eurpean star. Well stars have been known to explode rather spectacularly.
If you really want food for thought here is something for you. About 5 years ago we supplied less than 2% of Americas daily oil needs. Today we supply more than 5%. Essentially the Americans have
gone to a model that does not leave them beholden to any one supplier. Saudia Arabia only supplies the Americans with 5% of it's daily needs. So where is all that money. Paul Martin is not a genius budget guy he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. As finance minister he cut no government spending in total. The spending at the federal level actually grew by about 4% a year
Watch the price of Oil and US government policy on Oil. That is the net result for Canada's new found solvency. The Americans actually pay about a $2.00 premium for our oil. Should Iraq ever work out they will dump the Canadian Oil like a hot potato. Why because Iraq has the third largest proven oil reserves on the planet. Kirkuk the largest of three super giant oil fields in Iraq has about 60 billion barrels of Oil the other two are about 30 and 15 billion barrel respectively. Ghawar the Saudi field had about 220 billion barrels of Oil. All of these fields have been producing since the 1920's.
Posted by: Jeff Cosford | 2005-08-10 1:02:14 PM
TonyGuitar, I always enjoy your posts on Kate's site and I usually agree with you.
Actually, I wouldn't profit 1 cent if Alberta became a state.
The way I look at it is if Alberta becomes a state, we are both better off. On the other hand, if my encouragement of statehood shows Alberta that they have true friends down in the US, then it might give Alberta a more powerful negotiating position with Ottawa. (I mean, you could say, "Hey Paul! You realize, do you not, that we have friends down in the US that want us to become a state!")
So either way, I win.
What would be personally very satisfying to me would be the conservative propaganda victory if Alberta wanted to join the US. It would fly in the face of the whole EU mindset that believes no one could ever want to support an Amercan initiative. So if Alberta announced it wanted to join America, it would be a huge pie right in the face of America's detractors everywhere. So that would be my selfish reason.
Also I want to put an American voice in print actually INVITING Alberta into the US. Lots of people talk about it, but I am a fully paid-up American and extending an "invitation." And I do so because I really do believe that the move would be good for both of us.
I have been offended by anti-Americanism in Canada and anti-Alberta-ism. They spit on both of us, and tar us both with the same brush, so the way I figure it, why not give them something to worry about?
Posted by: Greg outside Dallas | 2005-08-10 1:13:47 PM
Aaron in the real world we have assets as a country that other counries such as China covet. Canada's land mass and natural resources are a very big prize to any country with a billion plus population. Lloyd axeworthy and friends have esientially said if we are nice to them then they will be nice to us. I gotta tell ya the world is a brutal place. The only reason we live as we do today is American self interest and morals. We get to keep what we have because we live under the umbrella of American military might. So sleep well at night somewhere in the world a young man,
American walks a post. Protecting your soverienty.
Posted by: Jeff Cosford | 2005-08-10 1:18:26 PM
TonyGuitar, I would love to know where your previous list of drawbacks to Alberta independence is. If they're as funny as the few points you've made above it should be quite amusing.
TonyG sez, "Albertan's enjoy paying no sales tax presently. That would change on separation and more taxes would also be required to pay for all the government buildings, institutions and staffs that Canada provides at the moment."
Alberta didn't have a sales tax untill the GST was foisted on us by Ottawa. The GST was a replacement for the manufacturer's tax. Quite contrary to our culture you know, and we wouldn't be paying that anymore. I'd like to read why you think we'd have a sales tax after independence when we don't have one now.
As for the government ministries and buildings, we already have those. We simply wouldn't be paying Ottawa to mirror them anymore. That would save money.
Albertans already pay for all the things in the firewall, healthcare, pensions, police and police facilities, they just aren't accountable to Albertans when administered by Ottawa. I'm sure Albertans would get better value for our money if we administered them ourselves.
The only thing we don't have is an armed forces for defense. I'm sure we could build an army and airforce superior to Canada's very quickly. We wouldn't need a navy.
TonyG sez, "Albertans live the highest quality life of any group anywhere. If the equalization figures were unknown, would there be any incentive to separate then?"
I'm know Ottawa would keep the equalization figures secret if they could, like so much of how they spend Canadian taxes, but the Alberta government sends the money to Ottawa and Ottawa sends less than half back. Simple subtraction, TonyG.
Albertan's have different values from Ontarians. Those differences are reason enough to opt out of Canada when Ontario insists on ruling our society with their values, through extortion using Alberta's stolen money. Albertans know they can afford to opt out of Canada, only sentimentality and a lack of vision for the future stand in our way.
Posted by: Speller | 2005-08-10 2:25:55 PM
Aaron: Treason is relative to the state from which one removes loyalty.
Siblings Sophie and Hans Scholl were also called traitors for opposing Nazi Germany, and were executed for it.
What about all those people who fled Pinochet's Chile, or Apartheid South Africa? Technically they are traitors, but to the free world they are heroes.
I think Albertans and Quebecers are just people tired of being abused and are finding a solution to the problem of Ontario. We are withdrawing our support for your regime and are going to take our business elsewhere.
If you think you can use military means to stop us, think again. After you try to invade us, and fail, you'll have to send your troops to Iraq for some peace and quiet.
Years ago I visited the North Bridge at Concord, Massachusetts, where (according to Ralph Waldo Emerson) the "shot heard round the world" was fired, starting the American Revolution. I thought and hoped that Alberta's own struggle for independence would not need a war. But even if you people start one, you will not succeed against a people yearning to be free.
If you Ontarians don't understand this, it's okay. You don't understand much about anyone or anything. All you know is you're on top, and everyone else is scum. No wonder Ontarians are hated so much.
Posted by: Scott | 2005-08-10 7:02:26 PM
Tell it , Scott. I love liberty and I'll be right beside you.
Posted by: Speller | 2005-08-10 7:18:37 PM
Scott I gotta say bravo and well done.
Posted by: Jeff Cosford | 2005-08-10 7:48:40 PM
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